00;00;04;29 – 00;00;36;25
Unknown
Hey there everyone, and welcome to another episode of, Manufacturing Transformed. I’m your host, Paul Van Meter. And today I’m doing a bit of an experiment. I am going to be not even interviewing myself, but just talking about a particular topic that I think is really important to pretty much any manufacturer. And I know that from our prior guests on Manufacturing Transformed, our, is a topic that has been near and dear to them and really impactful in the transformation that it’s helped, generate.
00;00;36;25 – 00;01;09;08
Unknown
And that is the increase of throughput, as a result of implementing Pro shop. But really just conceptually, this sort of topics that, Pro Shop helps address and the specific pain points, and details about a precision manufacturing business that, quite honestly, in my opinion, make it one of the hardest businesses in the world. So, and actually this, this whole, topic was, was brought up by some one of my connections on LinkedIn.
00;01;09;09 – 00;01;34;08
Unknown
This was a few months ago now, and, Pro Shop had put a post out saying that we helped increase throughput. And this gentleman messaged me privately on LinkedIn and he said, can you explain exactly how pro shop helps increase throughput? And, I thought it was, you know, he said in and I love the actually the way he said, he said like the direct, you know, value added of cutting metal more often.
00;01;34;10 – 00;01;53;08
Unknown
Right. He was very specific about the sort of language of kind of kind of the lean manufacturing language of what is it customer willing to pay for? They’re willing to pay you to cut metal, and they’re not willing to pay you to do a whole lot more than that. But for sure, if you’re cutting metal, they’re, they’re generally willing to pay for that.
00;01;53;08 – 00;02;20;27
Unknown
And that, of course, generally comprises, one of the biggest components of, of part cost. Particularly when you’re talking about, you know, sort of high value added parts, maybe without a huge amount of material cost, but a lot of machining time, and labor time, of course, as well. But anyway, I thought I would dig into this, because doing this well can be a transformational process in a business.
00;02;20;27 – 00;02;51;09
Unknown
In a manufacturing business. So I thought I would just get into it here. And I’ll start with, I guess by framing, that when we talk to pro shop clients, typically when we’re doing, testimonial video with them, but it comes out in all sorts of other ways as well. But, you know, sometimes we have clients that just sort of raise their hand to do a video with us or they’ve, said something either in an email to us or just possibly a LinkedIn post or somewhere.
00;02;51;16 – 00;03;11;25
Unknown
They’ve indicated that they’re just, you know, thrilled to death with Pro Shop. It’s made a huge difference. And we often reach out and say, hey, would you be willing to do a video with us on that? And they very often say, yeah, be happy to. But the most common, answer we get when we ask has Pro Shop helped increase throughput?
00;03;11;27 – 00;03;30;27
Unknown
The most common answer and if you can go look at our, you know, 30 plus or however many videos we have on our website. When we ask that question, that typical answer, you know, it varies, of course, but, I’d say 25% is is a pretty good average. We get sometimes upwards of 40 or 50% or more.
00;03;30;27 – 00;04;00;21
Unknown
Other times it’s less, but 25% is a decent number. So let’s talk about why shops do not cut metal enough. And I think this is a universal problem. Everyone wants to be having their machines cutting 24 over seven, but within when a machine is scheduled to run and you have staff to run it. So there’s a couple of baselines, there’s a number of different things that get in the way of cutting metal.
00;04;01;08 – 00;04;20;15
Unknown
And to overcome these can be pretty transformational to the profitability of a business. The throughput, ultimately the value of a business. So it was just going to go down the list. It is often the case that you go to or you want to cut a job, you want to set up and run that job, you don’t have any material.
00;04;21;22 – 00;04;44;10
Unknown
And this is a pretty basic problem. And a traditional ERP can have, some pretty, I’d say, rudimentary ability to affect this. Right? You can have an MRP system that runs and it orders material, or helps you facilitate ordering the material. And, hopefully it shows up on the right day and you go ahead and do it.
00;04;44;12 – 00;05;20;25
Unknown
But there are many other nuanced reasons why this is not always as simple as it appears. And one significant one is that material isn’t always exactly the same, depending on what situation you have in the shop. So, for example, you might have, the ability to run this job on a five axis machine in a zero point fixture with dovetail work holding, or you might have the ability to run it on a vertical machine just held in some, you know, held in a six inch vise with some soft jaws.
00;05;20;27 – 00;05;38;08
Unknown
And depending on, you know, which way you’re going to run it, you might want to optimize that material size for, you know, for that particular work holding. So let’s say in the five axis you need an extra little bit of material on the bottom to hold it in the dovetail, which you don’t need, holding it in your vertical.
00;05;39;00 – 00;06;11;01
Unknown
And that’s because you’re going to try to cut the whole thing in one work holding and cut it off the bottom, you know, and break the tab off, clean it off and you’re done. But Pro shops ability to have multiple simultaneous routings and have the specific material tied to those routings means that if you choose a routing with the five axis, you’re going to get queued up to for procurement and the preprocess, that thicker material, if you run it on a vertical, it’s going to queue up a smaller piece of material for the vertical.
00;06;11;15 – 00;06;37;29
Unknown
So, that’s just one way where, you can really have a positive impact, not only on not spending the extra money on the material. You don’t need if you’re doing it the alternate way. But, making sure that when it shows up, it’s it’s dialed in. It’s what you wanted. You don’t have to reprogram to get rid of some extra material or do some, some rigamarole, which is often the case.
00;06;38;01 – 00;07;12;02
Unknown
So the next one would be no cutting tools. When companies do not manage their cutting tools in that they don’t have basically a library of specific tool ID numbers that they keep an inventory on. And they then choose and assign to specific part numbers. It is incredibly difficult to make sure that everything is here available, not in use in some of their machines.
00;07;12;04 – 00;07;41;01
Unknown
You don’t you’re not going to run out, you know, partway through, you know, because having the tool list, to go on day one is different than, you know, day 3 or 4 as you’ve started consuming them. If you have a production job and it’s almost hard for me to imagine even accurate scheduling of jobs, if you don’t know that you have everything you need to successfully set up and then execute that job, you know when you need to do that.
00;07;41;01 – 00;08;11;14
Unknown
So, obviously it’s, the case that most ERPs don’t have a specific ability to manage and inventory and control cutting tools. Pro Shop does for anyone that, has been in our orbit for any period of time. You know, that’s the case. And, and even more to the point, not just the tools themselves, but even, the assemblies that can help contain those tools.
00;08;11;14 – 00;08;46;09
Unknown
You know, what kind of holders what kind of what kind of inserts, what kind of, call outs. If, if you’re going a call it Chuck or whatever. And the ability to manage those tools and make sure they’re here on time can dramatically increase the ability to make sure your setups go smoothly and you can keep running production, throughout your production process without having to, you know, scramble at the last minute to overnight a tool in or make some sort of, you know, last minute change to your program when you realize you don’t have the right tool that you want, or you’re using a suboptimal tool.
00;08;46;09 – 00;09;19;09
Unknown
So you have to dial down your feeds and speeds so you don’t get chatter or tool breakage or deflection, and you’re chasing tolerances. And one of my, one of my clients that has not been on the podcast yet, I hope he will be at some point mentioned that, prior to organizing their tools this way. It just really was chaotic in the shop and the amount of chaos reduction that happened when they decided to manage their tools, more proactively was just sort of a miraculous, change.
00;09;19;09 – 00;09;39;28
Unknown
So front of you that can relate to the chaos of scrambling a last minute to figure out what to do when you don’t have everything you need, is, it’s a it’s a welcome change. I’m going to touch on this one real quickly. Number three would be inspection gauges. This is just like tools or material.
00;09;39;28 – 00;09;58;02
Unknown
If you don’t know what you don’t have and it doesn’t show up at the right time, or you think you had it, but you realize it’s out of calibration or you don’t have it available. It’s just, a real bummer when you go to try to inspect the part you just made and set up and you can’t, therefore, you can’t verify it.
00;09;58;02 – 00;10;21;15
Unknown
You can’t. You think it’s good? It can be totally positive. It’s good. So, making sure that that’s that everything’s calibrated on schedule there and available, is super important. And, one thing for those, that are might be pro shop users, we are just about to release and we’ll be sharing it at IMT 2024 this year.
00;10;21;17 – 00;10;53;01
Unknown
The ability to specifically, track every single inspection result to a specific gauge and knowing the calibration, status of that gauge. So, we’ve been able to kind of do it over the years with sort of a makeshift method. But this is truly, you know, gauge traceable, to the every single inspection result, whether it’s a first article or in process, you know, QC inspections over dozens or hundreds of thousands of parts.
00;10;53;03 – 00;11;16;01
Unknown
So it’s a pretty powerful new feature that we’re super excited about. All right. The next one is no program. I’m sure everyone can relate to this. CNC programmers are, are not in not in. I’ll say they’re in short supply there. There’s there’s not a plethora of talented CNC programmers that anyone can just hire and have on staff.
00;11;17;05 – 00;11;42;08
Unknown
And sometimes it’s not completely obvious if, you have everything you need to the latest revision level of the part you’re making, with your programing yet and that lack of visibility, can be a, a real hindrance to making sure you’re able to keep your spindles running, keep your programs, flowing, your setup times low.
00;11;42;10 – 00;12;27;25
Unknown
And one thing that, my partner, Kelsey has mentioned, which I think is just particularly insightful when you have a lack of confidence and a lack of clarity in, let’s say you’re pulling a program from, from a previous run or something of that nature. If you aren’t really confident that that is a bulletproof program, that you have all the details thought through, that your drill depths are right, that you’re, you know, compared to your tap depths, you know, you’re roughing and finishing appropriately all the things that feed into having a successful program, if there’s if those are not dialed in, then that setup person is going to proceed much more cautiously.
00;12;28;25 – 00;12;54;20
Unknown
You know, pushing, you know, single block mode going line by line, looking at distance to go, making sure they’re not going to crash something. And that additional caution that just the slow down of of work when you’re not confident in the information that you’re working with, leads to not cutting chips as often. So that is, hopefully a fairly clear direct correlation between that.
00;12;55;01 – 00;13;19;17
Unknown
No fixture is, is something that is fairly common, certainly in shops that do a high, high mix of different part numbers and, maybe not all that frequently where you get parts, you know, maybe you’ll get it a few times a year. And, and that fixture that you made, you know, last year or the last time you made it, should hopefully be somewhere on the shelf.
00;13;19;17 – 00;13;57;05
Unknown
Hopefully it is labeled. Hopefully. You remember what it looks like. But not necessarily the case. And, and I know that in many shops that are in that type of situation, their fixture storage area, their fixture shelf, area of the company is probably overflowing with fixtures and tooling and things that may be current, may never be needed again, might be five years old and, just taking up space, getting really that sort of oily, dusty, greasy kind of feel to it.
00;13;58;17 – 00;14;32;13
Unknown
And you can’t find the actual fixture that you need for the job you’re about to go set up now. It’s so frustrating. You know, it’s here. You can’t remember where someone put it back in the wrong spot. You put it back in the wrong spot. And you look for, you know, minutes, hours. And ultimately, you find it, after much searching, or you give up entirely and you decide to remake the fixture, which is a whole nother machine set up, and getting the tools out for that and verifying the fit of the program is right.
00;14;32;13 – 00;14;57;08
Unknown
And the sort of cascading effect of of inefficiencies. And then more likely than not, once you make that new fixture, someone will walk up and say, hey, is this the fixture you were looking for? And they found the one that you made last year. So that always sucks. So when you have that available and you can just look it up in pro shop, go straight to the shelf, straight to the the rack that it’s on, grab it.
00;14;57;17 – 00;15;25;00
Unknown
Has its own ID number that you’ve engraved or, or label that somehow, it’s just so much simpler. And ideally you’re of course, doing this before the job is even needs to be set up. You’re doing it when we call the pre-processing checklist status or sort of, pre-processing phase of a job where you’re doing it a day or two or more in advance and you’re prepping everything, plenty of time, no rush.
00;15;25;07 – 00;15;50;15
Unknown
Well, prior jobs are running away. So the next one is no one to run machines. And, this, of course, is a ubiquitous program that pretty much any shop is dealing with these days. Because I saw a recent poll on LinkedIn and, what was the poll? It was, do you need more work or do you need more people?
00;15;50;18 – 00;16;16;00
Unknown
And the vast majority of shops said they need more people right now, not more work. And it’s not a direct, an easy way to show how pro Shop can help with this and what a sort of transformation it can be. But I know we’ve had people on the show that have said that Pro Shop has turned into a recruitment tool for them where they can, you know, when when they have a machinist come.
00;16;17;17 – 00;17;04;03
Unknown
To do an interview and tour the shop and just kind of scope out if this is a place they want to, you know, park their toolbox. It is often pretty attractive, proposition to come into a shop where, you know, there’s computers at every station. It’s it’s clearly very digital. You’re you’re not having piles of greasy, you know, coffee and oil stain travelers laying around, getting lost, trying to decipher the information in an assortment of pages that have tool lists and, you know, screenshots of your of your setup and where zeros are and all the, you know, craziness that can that can happen when you have a paper based system.
00;17;04;05 – 00;17;31;25
Unknown
And so Photoshop does become that recruiting tool, where a machinist says this is the type of company I want to, you know, work at. I’m kind of tired of the old way. So when you have more people that say yes to come work for you, it’s easier to have people to run those machines. And then, of course, there are the, the other stories of having, just because you have someone doesn’t mean they know what to do.
00;17;32;07 – 00;18;00;22
Unknown
They still might need, training or, you know, scaffolding or argumentation on, on that skill set of what it takes to set up a machine, to run a machine, holding tolerances and having that go smoothly and I will share, story that, I’ve shared in other places, but not on this particular podcast. I was down at a shop in the Portland, Oregon area, a few years ago visiting a customer, and I was there during the night shift, and there was a very young man.
00;18;00;22 – 00;18;22;26
Unknown
He must be late teens or early 20s, and he was setting up a, a five axis mill. And which is all of, you know, is a very complex piece of equipment. And there was pretty much no one left in the office. And, he was just working away. And I asked him how long he’d been there, and he said, I’ve been here about six months.
00;18;22;26 – 00;18;46;04
Unknown
And I said, oh, cool. So in my math, I was doing the the calculations. You know, he’s a very young guy. He’s competently setting up this machine. He really looked like he knew what he was doing. And he’s only been here six months, which means he transferred here from some other company. You know, he’s been a machinist for a while, and, although not that long because he’s still pretty young.
00;18;46;06 – 00;19;08;02
Unknown
And I said, what shop did you come from? And he said, I came from KFC. And I thought to myself, gosh, I know almost all the shops in this general area of Portland and I don’t know, KFC. Is that Ken’s, you know, Ken’s fine, CNC shop. And he said, he said, no, KFC, Kentucky Fried Chicken.
00;19;08;04 – 00;19;27;03
Unknown
And I thought for a second, I said, is this your first machining job? And he said, sure it is. And, I said, I said, wait a second. So you I said, so you’ve only been in the machining industry for six months. He said, yep, that’s exactly right. And I said, you’re on night shift setting up a five axis mill.
00;19;27;05 – 00;19;56;10
Unknown
And it and it was a fairly complex part. And I said, how, you know, how in the world are you doing that? And he said, well, come over here and take a look. And he like, walked over to his side of the screen he had in front of him. And he had up in pro shop a, very detailed, set up overview page, which shows the exact fixture you need exact cutting tool less the exact, we’re calling, the pictures of the setup.
00;19;56;10 – 00;20;20;11
Unknown
He even had some videos, that people had taken on day shift and, and then the programing office and he said, you know, I’m pretty mechanically inclined, you know, I’ve, I’ve been working on cars and motorcycles for, for years. So I know how to use tools and I know how to do things with my hands. And he said they just gave me this job with all the information right here in front of me.
00;20;20;13 – 00;20;54;13
Unknown
And I just follow it and, you know, get out my parts. So it was a it was the first time I had really understood the power of visual reconstructions, having really organized data. I mean, I knew they were important, but I didn’t really put two and two together to see the true implications of all that coming together and solving this problem of a shop not having enough skilled people, and to be able to hire completely inexperienced but talented, people to work on machines and set up jobs.
00;20;54;13 – 00;21;20;08
Unknown
So that is, one way that pro shop can help, with having people to run the machines so you can keep cutting metal more often. The next one on the list is not having a job. Traveler, which, of course, is, a problem. Only a paper based, shop will have where they go to set up.
00;21;20;12 – 00;21;56;04
Unknown
They go to, I don’t know, set up a job or even know they’re supposed to do a job because, they’re supposed to be a traveler. And, I was at a shop in Portland. Not for. Excuse me. It was a shop in Denver earlier in 2024. In the springtime, I’m shooting a video. And one of the guys, the shop manager, I believe it was said that, before they switched to pro shop and had this, this true transformation of theirs, they were going through, they had an old system with paper based travelers, and they would routinely lose them.
00;21;56;04 – 00;22;16;12
Unknown
And I’m sure all of you out there that work in such shops know what that means. I’ve had that happen yourself. But he said in this particular example, they lost the traveler, could not find it, couldn’t set up the job, had to ultimately, you know, reprint the travel or reprint all the details and then, you know, then they could start into it.
00;22;17;22 – 00;22;36;29
Unknown
They eventually found the job traveler they were looking for, I think weeks later, if not months later, sitting on the very top of a shelf in the bathroom. So someone clearly had gone to use the restroom, stuck the traveler up there, forgot about it, and that was the end of it. They did never. They never found that thing until it was far, far too late.
00;22;36;29 – 00;23;06;03
Unknown
So, there you go. When you don’t have a traveler missing, it’s easier to get right into doing what you’re doing and, spend more time cutting metal. The next one is if you have a machine broken down or is in service and you don’t actually have a spindle, it’s functional to, to make those parts, and it was actually it was machine shop mastery.
00;23;06;03 – 00;23;28;01
Unknown
When I was talking to someone, he said, if you don’t maintain your machines, they’re going to maintain they’re going to decide for you. When is the time that you need to do the maintenance, by breaking down. And, so in the, in the hustle and bustle of a busy company, often maintenance, is not at the top of the list of things you want to take care of on time.
00;23;28;01 – 00;23;52;23
Unknown
And, you’re much more likely to have a machine go down because something that could have been simple, a simple preventative maintenance, done in advance, refilling oil or checking calibration or whatever it might be, even clearing out chips so the chip conveyor doesn’t get clogged and jammed. That’s much more likely to not be a might be an issue if you’re on top of maintenance.
00;23;52;26 – 00;24;19;07
Unknown
And of course, Pro Shop has a, pretty nicely integrated preventative maintenance. So capability in the equipment module, which is also the same module we use for equipment calibration. So similarly, if you can’t measure something, because your stuff’s all out of calibration, it’s as per the earlier point, it’s going to be tough. So stay on top of it.
00;24;19;07 – 00;24;36;19
Unknown
Push up, you know, sends alerts and puts it on dashboard and tells you exactly, you know, assuming you put it into the system, garbage in, garbage out, you know how it is that you, you know, fill the oil with what kind of oil and where do you find it? And how do you do, you know, a calibration service.
00;24;37;11 – 00;24;55;24
Unknown
But if you stay on top of that, your machines are going to, run more reliably. They’re not going to go down on you more as often, and you’ll be able to cut metal more often. So here’s a here’s one that is, I think every shop can relate to, especially when you’re busy and, and have lots of jobs on the go.
00;24;55;24 – 00;25;26;18
Unknown
It is, you know, here’s the scenario. A machinist sets up a job, they sub, they get their first part off the part of the machine. They check it themselves. They think it’s good, everything’s looking okay. And they submit that part into, into QA to get a formal first article. And, oftentimes when that job shows up, you know, on that shelf, that incoming shelf, you know, for the QA department, that’s the first time they know about it.
00;25;28;09 – 00;26;01;02
Unknown
Maybe they knew the job was, you know, on the schedule, but maybe not. You know, they’re just busy doing their thing all day, every day. And, that, that, that inability to kind of forecast what’s coming to be able to see that, you’re going to need a CMM program for that, or you’re going to need, you know, this special gauge or this whatever it is that you can prepare in advance to know that you can, you know, QA that part and get get the approval back to the machinist, and as quick a time frame as possible.
00;26;01;04 – 00;26;25;12
Unknown
There’s all sorts of obstacles to that being the case. So, when you can specifically see the schedule of what jobs are coming up to, flow into scheduling, or, excuse me, flow into the Q Department, it’s much easier to be prepped and ready and, have that same program ready or whatever it is that you might, that you might need to do.
00;26;26;09 – 00;26;48;23
Unknown
And it a lot of the, the ability to be prepped for that is really just being more proactive on the plan. Right. When you first get a job, you know, planning out your, your we’re calling your CNC programing, is one of the most critical things you have to do, or else you’re not making parts at all without that.
00;26;49;08 – 00;27;11;00
Unknown
But quite honestly, just as important is developing that inspection plan, right. If you are in the aerospace industry and you have to submit a, an assigning 1 or 2 report, then you know, you’re going to need your balloon drawing with all your attributes, you know, specifically identified and ultimately reported on that assigning 1 or 2 report.
00;27;11;02 – 00;27;45;26
Unknown
But, if you can, in conjunction with your manufacturing plan, design your inspection plan really early upfront, you know, engaging the right, the right team of people to make sure that both of those plans are going to jive with each other. You know, the way you’re inspecting and the way your, your machining, is going to come together in a way that’s, that’s collaborative and compatible, can just really unlock a lot more velocity through that QA lab, which means people are waiting less often, or for shorter periods of time for their jobs to get inspected.
00;27;45;26 – 00;28;19;21
Unknown
And they can get back to cutting metal more often. And then the last sort of category of, why things, why shops don’t cut metal often enough. Is that they are actually in very long setups. You know, every single shop out there knows far too well how painful it can be when you get into a set up that you hopefully think will be relatively smooth and it just goes sideways.
00;28;21;28 – 00;28;51;18
Unknown
You know, you start breaking tools, you scrap material, you, the parts not coming into tolerance. You are even you can’t even cut metal because you’re busy running around the shop doing laps and laps and laps looking for all the things that I mentioned earlier. Right. You, can’t find the special thread gauge you thought you had a special, you know, drill pre-drill for the special size, you know, oversize tap, whatever it might be.
00;28;54;06 – 00;29;38;25
Unknown
Especially once you’ve already gotten into a set up partway and then you realize you don’t have what you need. You’re kind of stuck. That’s just not a fun situation. So, with, with push ups. Pre-processing checklist, which I mentioned earlier. That is just a very simple, configurable checklist that allows you to create, you know, a plan, if you will, of making sure that all the things that need to happen up front, not not extra things, we definitely don’t want to over process and do things you don’t want to do or need to do, but just the the essentials, make sure you have the right drawing and model.
00;29;38;25 – 00;30;23;28
Unknown
Make sure you, you know, have, have the tools, make sure your inspection plans are ready to make sure your gauges are there, and make sure your fixture is is done. Make sure your material is is on hand. And ideally, make sure you’ve prepped the job in advance. You have a proven program or G-code and your documentation to be able to efficiently, proceed with that setup when you can use something like a very simple checklist to scaffold the machinist who’s doing a really complex set of operations, to be honest, it can just go a lot better and things can go faster and you can be setting up less time,
00;30;24;00 – 00;30;54;28
Unknown
avoiding problems from happening in the first place and making chips much more frequently. So that, is, in a nutshell, some of the things that, certainly and much more specificity and depth that some of our, my past guests have talked about, about how Pro shop has really impacted their ability to increase their throughput, to have less scrap to have, you know, better machine and people utilization.
00;30;55;01 – 00;31;21;06
Unknown
And, you know, as it might be evident just from the way I’m describing all these things, we know about those things because we experience them at our own shop. You know, I think those were all the problems that I described. We were trying to avoid. Those were all problems we had, you know, plenty of in the early days of pro CNC before we really built pro shop or refined it or perfected it.
00;31;21;09 – 00;31;43;26
Unknown
Not that it’s perfect, but, you know, got it to the state that it’s in today where it was, you know, pretty darn functional for the for the task we were trying to achieve. And, yeah. So that’s about it. This is a definitely a short one, like I said, a bit of an experiment, but, something that I thought was, important to share and talk about.
00;31;44;22 – 00;32;04;15
Unknown
We are heading off to IMT next week, and, I’m going to have an awfully good time there, getting together with the team, with lots of clients and, just enjoying the heck out of our time. So thanks for listening to this one. If you thought it was worthwhile, I’d love to have you reach out.
00;32;04;15 – 00;32;29;02
Unknown
Let us know if you thought this was garbage. And please bring back the guests. I definitely want to hear that as well. So, whatever the feedback is, I’m. I’m here for it. So I appreciate you, spending the time to, to drop me a note. If you are a pro shop customer and you think you have a transformation story you’d love to share, I would love to dig in to your story and share it with the rest of the world.
00;32;29;02 – 00;32;47;16
Unknown
So, reach out. You can connect with me, probably through a LinkedIn message. Or if you already know, my email, you probably have that in your in your, in your, in your, your address book as it is. So anyway, thanks again. We’ll leave this one at that and we’ll see you on the next show. Thanks so much.
