00;00;09;00 – 00;00;36;48
Unknown
Welcome, everybody. Hello. Good to see you all. I am excited for this one. We have been prepping for this for a couple of months now, and, Kelsey and I are going to be sharing stuff from our background, of course, and the dozens or hundreds of shops we talked to every year. But I’m also super excited to have to, people I respect greatly, joining to share their wisdom of their building, their shops over the years.

00;00;36;48 – 00;00;57;05
Unknown
So, it’s going to be a good one today. We’ll, let’s see. People are streaming into the into the room here. as I like to do with almost every webinar, I would love to have you share in the chat. what, where are you coming from? Where in the world, where what state city you are coming from?

00;00;57;05 – 00;01;15;57
Unknown
And it’s fun to see people from all over the place and I think even you have some housekeeping stuff to do, don’t you? yes. Right now I just need to go ahead and say that if anyone has questions for any of our presenters at any time, please use the Q&A box on the right side of your screen.

00;01;16;22 – 00;01;39;50
Unknown
that should help us get to them at the end. And with that, without any further ado, Paul, I think you’ve got this. All right. Appreciate it, Evan, and thanks to Modern Machine Shop for hosting this, it’s always a great partnership with you all. And, and, getting the word out to bring more, more, more people to, to hear, the hopefully the great, things that we’re going to share today.

00;01;39;50 – 00;02;05;21
Unknown
And our guests are going to share. So let’s, let’s move through the slides. Always start our, our webinars with our mission statement. We deliver powerful manufacturing software by deeply understanding our clients challenges in order to meaningfully improve their businesses and in turn, their communities. And that part is so important to all of us, the community’s part, as as you all know, that work in shops, you are the foundation of everything that gets built in the world.

00;02;05;26 – 00;02;26;34
Unknown
So it’s just so critically important that your companies do well. So I want to introduce, obviously myself and Paul, one of the co-founders of Pro Shop. Kelsey, let’s start with you next, and then we’ll move to Brian them up. Hey, thanks, everybody, for coming. it’s great to be here with Modern Machine Shop and, Yeah, I, I really just want to double down on what Paul said about the mission.

00;02;27;01 – 00;02;45;52
Unknown
you know, if I could choose to do anything with my life, I would want to, live that mission some more tomorrow. I, love to get into shops. Love to connect with you. love to get involved in how stuff is made, and make it better for all of us. I think it’s that durable, useful, long term goods.

00;02;45;54 – 00;03;12;03
Unknown
Like, it’s it’s the cornerstone of modern civilization. So, and and then, Brian, let’s jump to you next. Thank you for being here. Yeah. I’m Brian McCabe, founder and CEO of Machine Sciences Corporation. we’re a shop out in the Portland, Oregon area. And, we started the shop 23 years ago, and it’s just been the last four years we’ve been using Pro Shop and really love it.

00;03;12;07 – 00;03;33;03
Unknown
Awesome. And I have been to Machine Sciences. Absolutely beautiful facility, new facility, in fact, Brian, I took a picture of it and put it on Google Maps like a couple of years ago when I visited, and it’s gotten thousands of views. A lot of people want to see your building. Apparently. So, all right. They’re all welcome to come into your,

00;03;33;08 – 00;03;53;42
Unknown
Yeah. And then next, Matt, good friend, for many years now, I’d love for you to introduce yourself. My name is Matt Garlic. I am president of 3D Graphite Machining. Been using pro shop for a while. I probably could put my flag down and say I’m your number one fan. At least close, right? But yeah.

00;03;53;47 – 00;04;13;02
Unknown
You believe it. Yeah. So we all, a lot of our success to pro shop and it’s been a great ride and I have been a student of ERP even before that for a long time, failing at other ERP and then finally finding one that works, which is so great and, just really excited to be part of this conversation.

00;04;13;02 – 00;04;33;50
Unknown
It’s, one of my favorite topics to talk about. And so I do, business coaching for, CNC shops on the side. it’s kind of like a hobby. and so, yeah, this I talk about pro shop almost every day with other shops. So it’s great. Awesome. Well thank you, Matt. Appreciate the advocacy. All right. Here’s the agenda.

00;04;33;50 – 00;04;55;56
Unknown
Today we have six main topics. We’re going to be talking about becoming sales driven talking about certifications going paperless, billing your team setting up your company for for high throughput and profitability. And then mastering finance in a way that’s easy to understand for all of us that aren’t CPAs and and accountants. So let’s dig into it here.

00;04;56;00 – 00;05;20;53
Unknown
So first topic, becoming a sales driven organization. I know that, that was a key to our success at Pro CNC. I of all the companies that I have interviewed on my podcast, Machine Shop Mastery, the ones that are doing the best are the ones that are clearly, focused on sales, even though it’s not necessarily the the the natural skill set of people that often start machine shops.

00;05;20;53 – 00;05;49;41
Unknown
It is so fundamentally critical. and and not only that, but going after niches and being really targeted on a specific markets, Brian, I know you left some notes for this. Maybe we’ll open it up. One. Have you, share some of your experience here? Yeah. Great. Thank you. I think the first point is I came to the business with a sales marketing background, not a traditional machine shop background.

00;05;49;41 – 00;06;16;14
Unknown
So I started to see the business through those eyes. And one thing I noticed about a lot of shops we went to look at before we opened our doors. Is that they just seem to do a lot of everything. You know, they had one machine that did this and one machine that did that, and we started with one horse before, and my natural sales and marketing instinct was, what’s the ideal part for this machine?

00;06;16;19 – 00;06;43;39
Unknown
And we ended up just going after air, aerospace. bezels that go in cockpits and we optimized our programing around that. And then the beauty of that, we, we were able to turn around and say that we were experts at doing that work for our customers. So it was beneficial on the marketing side, but it was beneficial on the operating side to have a focus on a niche.

00;06;45;28 – 00;07;11;47
Unknown
Yeah. Kelsey and I are both smiling here because we started our shop with a VF four, and we also really focused on keyboard bezels for cockpits. So there’s so many similarities. Yeah. And it served us very well to to lean deeply into those markets and not trying to, you know, do some highly complex cosmetic bezels. one day and then you tear it down and you do some big, huge A36 steel hog outs the next day.

00;07;11;51 – 00;07;33;30
Unknown
Right. yeah. Right. It’s just so difficult. Matt, I know you’ve been a sort of a sales and marketing master for many years. what what’s what? Some of the things you might want to share about, what’s important for businesses that maybe are not focused on that enough today? Well, I mean, I used to sell cutting tools.

00;07;33;58 – 00;08;07;01
Unknown
when I first started, my, my grandfather had the Bridgeport line, and my dad sold cutting tools and mold components, and that’s how I. I was a salesman before I started a machine shop, which was 3D pro’s a long time ago. And, you know, so I’ve been in hundreds, if not thousands of shops or talk to them over the years, all my best friends on shops and so all the successful shops, but they either lucked into some cash cow or they finally started focusing on sales and then marketing.

00;08;07;06 – 00;08;25;57
Unknown
A lot of that’s not a lot of CNC shops that that know about marketing, but at least sales, which is, you know, good enough, I guess. but yeah, all of them, that’s the that’s really something in common throughout all the great companies I’ve worked with doing overflow work or selling them products, it was always, a sales driven company.

00;08;25;57 – 00;08;42;24
Unknown
And I think a really good example. Paul, is your company, right? No offense to Kelsey. I mean, the genius, you have to have a product to sell, but the sales is the tip of the spear, you know, and I can remember talking to you about that when you started, and I’ve. I’ve just been in awe about what you’ve done.

00;08;43;02 – 00;09;03;09
Unknown
my girlfriend is in marketing, and she’s learning about C and C, and I keep referring her to what you’re doing. Right. And what you’ve done over the years. And it’s just it’s like if everybody just followed your plan, which is not easy, right? I mean, it’s it’s all that marketing is an art, just like machining. Right.

00;09;03;09 – 00;09;27;04
Unknown
And to Brian’s point, like, yeah, I mean, how many other companies do you know where the owner has a sales and marketing backer? I mean, there’s not many, right? So they have to either hire somebody you can hire on, you know, good salesmen and marketing firms. I, I would say like if you if you’re a company out there and you want to get into sales and marketing, I think the best path is to hire somebody to teach you how to do it.

00;09;27;45 – 00;09;54;15
Unknown
Right. If you’re hiring somebody to do your marketing 99% of the time, they’re not going to understand the context of machining. We are such a niche. And if you have a niche inside of a niche like mine, like I named my my company 3D Graphite Machining. So I would never machined anything besides graphite because my last company, 3D industries, which was, a fun company, we did everything, it was really hard to make money at that, right?

00;09;54;16 – 00;10;12;48
Unknown
Ultimately, I had to sell it. not that we didn’t make money, but, now that we have a niche inside of a niche, it’s just so much easier to make a profit and to do a marketing plan. Right? So the tighter niche you have, the easier it is to market. So yeah. Yeah. And let’s talk about that for a minute.

00;10;12;48 – 00;10;30;48
Unknown
And I do love the advice of hiring someone to help you do it rather than outsourcing it entirely. Because you’re right, it is very hard to find. I’ve heard so many stories of people that have hired a marketing agency that are just sort of a general marketing agency, and they just totally don’t get the industry. They don’t they don’t, understand the verbiage.

00;10;30;48 – 00;10;57;00
Unknown
They don’t speak in an authentic way that resonates with customers. some of these, these bullet points right here are something from, Making Chips episode. For those of you that listen to the Making Chips podcast. we, we have started a sort of a, shop masterclass sort of series where we put little, hopefully, jewels of information into, into a short little segment.

00;10;57;00 – 00;11;14;37
Unknown
I think Sarah is going to or Abra is going to share. Yep. Thank you. There’s the, there’s the link we will send out, by the way, we’re going to share a whole bunch of different other resources and links. And I did forget to mention in the handouts, if you haven’t seen it already, click in the little handout section in the upper right of your screen.

00;11;14;41 – 00;11;39;54
Unknown
There is a worksheet for this, for this webinar. So you can print that off or just pull it up on a PDF or, whatever browser and start typing in and sort of work along with us. Because what we really want for you to take away from this is some concrete action steps that you can do to improve in one of these six areas, or all of them, but start small, do easy things first.

00;11;40;22 – 00;11;58;03
Unknown
so check those. Check out the workbook, and then all the links that we’re going to share. we will send out, along with the recording and follow up emails. So you don’t need to worry about copying. And I’ll put them put them all on a, you know, open up tabs and all that. So, but anyway, building a sales engine.

00;11;58;03 – 00;12;22;47
Unknown
So starting with, you know, developing a brand that will resonate with your customers, you know, clearly we have two gentlemen here that have done that, you know, Matt, with, with machining, graphite very exclusively. and then machine sciences, you know, clearly, resonating to, to grow and, and, you know, both of you have great logos, Brian, I know you saw me.

00;12;22;47 – 00;12;44;26
Unknown
I posted a picture. I was at the I was out go karting with my family, and I had your shirt on. It’s just a beautiful logo. Even without the name on there. So anyway, developing a brand and then marketing materials, a one of my recent podcast guests said he was talking to another shop that was struggling to win some sales, and he said, well, you have a brochure.

00;12;44;26 – 00;13;15;20
Unknown
And he pulled out something that he said, you know, looked like it was designed in WordPerfect in the 90s. Right. And it was still better than nothing, but it was by no means conveying the professionalism, of what that company was. It was capable of doing. And, and then ramping up your sales engine, you know, again, this is easier said than done, you know, to to Matt’s point, you know, hire if you’re not great at it yourself, hire someone or a coach to help you learn how to get better at it.

00;13;16;17 – 00;13;41;18
Unknown
but it is such a critical thing to do. And then developing that thought leadership that was one of the key tools of success at Pro, and we went really deep on design for manufacturability, doing workshops and newsletters and and all sorts of things. And it really helped us become a partner with our clients. And they thought of us more that way than just a vendor that there, you know, sending parts to.

00;13;41;23 – 00;14;01;47
Unknown
Yeah. And I would say just on that, you know, in that one piece about developing your value proposition, just sit down and actually, you know, write down the things you’re good at and then force yourself to say the best thing, like it’s stack ranks, you got to pick the top one you’re the best at. And if you pick the top three, you you got to pick the top one to start there.

00;14;01;52 – 00;14;29;40
Unknown
Yeah. Yep yep. And there’s a couple of, couple of links here we’re going to share. I had a really heartfelt and great conversation with, Tom Rougeau from our industries just a few weeks ago. Started as a one man shop. they’ve grown considerably over the last few years. and he sort of like these, you know, Matt and and, Brian here, he came in not as a manufacturing expert, but as a sales and marketing person.

00;14;29;45 – 00;14;50;48
Unknown
And, he’s like, it doesn’t really matter what I’m going to sell. I’m going to do that really well. I’m going to focus on that. and he has had huge success with trade shows recently, going to trade shows, walking them, not even exhibiting, walking the shows, talking to, you know, OEM, OEM companies. And he said, it’s amazing how many of them are sharing that.

00;14;50;48 – 00;15;15;55
Unknown
They’re having trouble finding suppliers right now. So, you know, get out of that comfort zone and go, go and do that. Another resource for you is, another workshop that we did with Emily from Marketing Metal, just a few weeks ago as well. marketing doesn’t Have to Suck workshop. And she also has a great workbook, which you can get if you go follow the links we’ll share.

00;15;16;52 – 00;15;41;44
Unknown
to really focus on how to develop that. And then lastly, for some resources, two episodes of our podcast, both companies that are really, really itchy and talk about the importance of niching down becoming really an expert in a particular area. And, the success will come, rather than trying to be a jack of all trades. All right.

00;15;41;48 – 00;16;05;47
Unknown
Any last, thoughts on that topic before we move to number two, anyone? I think the other thing that I learned from being sales driven at, at Pro CNC was, you want to be a whole bunch of things, but what you need to be is whatever your sales will actually afford you to be. So you can’t you can’t do more than your sales are going to allow you to do.

00;16;06;11 – 00;16;28;29
Unknown
so you got to you got to get in there and have those sales to justify all the rest, and you know it. But yeah, yeah, I have I have one quick thing to end, about okay. So I struggled a lot trying to get shop owners, my friends, let’s just say that owned shops, it started to struggle from time to time.

00;16;28;34 – 00;16;57;21
Unknown
And I always find it odd that these guys would go out and spend $750,000 on a milling machine, right? But they won’t hire on a six figure salesman or new website. So, it was just always upside down in my, in my experience. So like, if you if you’re out there and you own a shop or you’re, you’re running a shop, you might want to think like that, you know, like what?

00;16;57;26 – 00;17;13;55
Unknown
Sales is the tip of the spear. It’s it’s everything. So, you know, where are you putting your efforts? And even if you’re busy, sales can help you. Everybody has a customer that’s a pain in the butt that you’d like to chop off. And and or maybe you raise your prices, right. Like, I have a I have a good friend.

00;17;14;00 – 00;17;41;42
Unknown
I’ve been consulting, down the street here, and, he started doing sales and marketing and increase his profits by 25%. And he was busy already, but he just got more profitable at work instead of fighting, you know, some of the stuff. So anyway, that’s just real quick. Yep. Absolutely. No, I appreciate you sharing that for sure. You know, just think about if you don’t have purchase orders to make chips with you, you can buy all the fancy machines you want, but you’re not going to be making chips.

00;17;41;42 – 00;18;21;22
Unknown
So, all right, let’s jump into number two. And this is about getting third party certifications. So, you know, I’m sure on this on this call there’s a cross-section of companies that have certifications. Lots of them. Some that have maybe one and some that don’t have any at all. And, you know, when I just kind of look at it in the industry, when I talk to people and I, I’m in forums and hearing people talk about how busy they are aren’t, there certainly seems to be some common themes that the companies that are the busiest right now, that are thriving, that are growing, by and large, are the ones that have really

00;18;21;22 – 00;18;49;10
Unknown
leaned into, you know, certifications, whether it’s quality ones like ISO 9100 or 1345 or AP, and then of course, upcoming. Now all the cybersecurity requirements if you’re going to work for the government or the defense industry or space. But, but in my mind, the, the importance of, a third party certification, especially the quality ones, is not just to open the doors.

00;18;49;10 – 00;19;15;08
Unknown
It’s really to get your company aligned with robust business processes to help improve efficiency, improve quality, improve profitability. I think it’s been demonstrated, with many studies that companies that are the most profitable are also the ones with certifications. they just run more efficiently. And of course, as we know, that opens the doors to, to certifications.

00;19;15;08 – 00;19;39;55
Unknown
And I want to hear from both both of our guests here. maybe you start with you, Brian. you, you know, Machine Sciences holds a bunch of different certifications. And how has that been part of your success as the growth of your business over the years? Yeah. Oh, I’d say they’ve been really successful for us. But I’d like to go back to when we started down the path for S 9100, which was about ten years ago now.

00;19;39;55 – 00;20;03;38
Unknown
And it looked like it was, you know, a huge mountain to climb to get all the things done and get all the procedures in place. And I remember thinking, the only way to do this right is really to embrace the standard and not just do it. To check the box for a customer, requirement, but to do it to improve our operations.

00;20;03;43 – 00;20;28;14
Unknown
And so in many of the ways we implemented, we just did it with our own improvement in mind rather than trying to check that box for the customer. And now at this point, it’s just part of everything we do. And it really has, you know, benefited us in many ways because we systematize things. You know, our quality checks are just part of the way we operate.

00;20;28;19 – 00;20;45;24
Unknown
And so we’re just a much better shop because we took that approach to it I believe. Yeah I really agree with that one Brian. And I think that sometimes, you know, there’s so much going on in shops that you want to get to this next thing, you want to get to that thing you want to get here.

00;20;45;24 – 00;21;12;00
Unknown
But sometimes if there’s a bit of a certification drive like, hey, we got to get to, you know, this by a certain date, then you prioritize a few of those things and sometimes prioritizing your own internal processes to be robust and successful, that’s, that’s a win all the way around. Yeah. We’re doing the same thing now with security because security’s the next big, you know, mountain to climb for customers.

00;21;12;05 – 00;21;44;04
Unknown
CMC’s coming down. And again I think looking at it from the standpoint of how can this help us rather than how can we just use this to check the box. It’s really the way to approach it. Yeah. It’s foundational. And obviously if, if you know, if you, if you’re not shipping quality products or if you’re you know, servers and, and company are getting hacked and, you know, losing your customers data that is a bad place to be in either case.

00;21;44;09 – 00;22;08;10
Unknown
And as you said, Brian, coming at it from that mindset of how can this improve the company and how can we streamline and protect and just do better in our operations. I think that’s got to be the foundation of the whole initiative. And then that bonus of the companies that care the most about those things are the ones that are going to be less price sensitive.

00;22;08;10 – 00;22;32;44
Unknown
They’re going to have probably longer term contracts, they’re going to have more production work. There’s so many sort of follow on positive effects of getting into those industries. I know Matt, you as well, have a lot of certifications in your past. any any additional thoughts to share on this? While Brian really nailed it, he mirrored every thought that I had, including the security thing.

00;22;32;44 – 00;23;05;21
Unknown
I was going to try to mention that at the end that, security is a big deal going forward. And that takes that’s a lot. We’re going through that right now. And, that’s a big deal. I guess my only other thought on that would be, I don’t know if everybody that is on this webinar has pro shop, but I can remember going after my, ISO certification way back without pro Shop and then going through my ass certification post Pro shop, and it was like it was unbelievably easy.

00;23;05;21 – 00;23;29;00
Unknown
You guys provide a framework, right? And all you have to do is just type in your data. You have to be mindful, right? But it’s so easy to get these certifications if you have a system in place like that. So I know a lot of other shops that struggle. And I always promote pro shop saying like, you know, they built their ERP system around the IR standards, right?

00;23;29;00 – 00;23;50;38
Unknown
So, so that was, that was, that was that was it was really easy for me. I can remember that. I can remember when I realized they had done it right. Space-X came in and, I can’t remember what his name was, but, he was ahead of, engineering for space and quality. And he said, he had never been so impressed on a visit.

00;23;50;38 – 00;24;11;59
Unknown
And I think I told you that part. And I was like, Holy shit, we got it right. So I love it. Yeah, that was where I was. And this is where I got to give Kelsey all the credit. You know, back in, what, 2004 to 2006, when our own shop got ISO and then a certified Kelsey was like, I’m not going to have a bunch of spreadsheets to manage this.

00;24;11;59 – 00;24;35;20
Unknown
So this was Lyons along with, you know, with Matt, our, our co-founder, the QMS modules that plugged right into all the ERP stuff. And, yeah, so good work. And if you get a chance, go check out Paul’s, zero prep audit post. Oh, yes. thank you all for dropping that in the chat. That is really I mean, it’s such a foundational principle.

00;24;35;20 – 00;24;55;22
Unknown
And I think it speaks to what you talked about, Brian, if you if you go into it thinking like this is the way we’re going to run our company and you try to do that all the time, you don’t need to scramble to get prepped for audits. You are always audit ready, which is the safest and most robust way to run a business in the first place.

00;24;55;26 – 00;25;24;35
Unknown
All right. So you’re closing out your NCR as you’re doing your corrective actions. You’re doing your management reviews. You’re doing your calibrations. You’re doing your training. and of course Photoshop can help with all those things, but it’s just so important to do that. here’s just a handful, a very small sample of, logos of companies that have gotten certifications, through pro shop, either just using our modules or even us helping them actually go get those certifications with our consulting services.

00;25;24;35 – 00;25;45;58
Unknown
So, yeah. Really, grateful for everyone that trusted us to help them do that. And it’s fantastic to see the results and their businesses. All right. Let’s talk. number three, we’re going to go into getting all your data in one spot. Right? I know this is, a topic near and dear to your heart, both of you as well, of course.

00;25;45;58 – 00;26;06;59
Unknown
But I know you put some notes in here. Do you want to kick us off here? Yeah, sure. I think that, you know, when we, Really made the leap to getting everything into our first ERP system was when we realized that we couldn’t keep track of all the work that was in the shop. you just reached your point where you don’t know what what’s on each machine.

00;26;06;59 – 00;26;33;18
Unknown
You can’t recall which parts are out at OSB and so forth. And so, you know, we started, with a different ERP system and got part of the way there were Pro shop did for us. That was, we went completely paperless. And by doing that we have, you know, screens, touch screens that every machine in the shop, every, workstation in the shop.

00;26;33;18 – 00;27;02;16
Unknown
And so what that means is all the data goes into one system, and it’s also, accessible and real time at any given point in time, which really makes all the difference, because you want to be able to tell your customers where their job is within your shop. You want to, you know, know yourself where things are within your shop, make scheduling easier and makes communication easier.

00;27;03;35 – 00;27;37;44
Unknown
if you just reach that point where your size dictates that you have to get everything in one one place, and, then things just become much more streamlined at that point. Okay. Yeah. I just wanted to add on to that, that I, I’ve seen and I see you do it really well. and other clients that it starts to encourage this contribution effect where when people think that there’s a place that people will look, hey, it’s going to be here because that’s the only place we put stuff and it’s available for everybody.

00;27;37;48 – 00;28;05;43
Unknown
They tend to start contributing like, oh, you know, this isn’t going to get lost underneath someone’s or disappear into the never, never. It’s going to be here the next time someone opens up this job. Right. Like and that gets that sort of engagement interaction. People start putting their efforts into it. Yeah. And if the only vehicle is typing it in or writing it into a screen rather than putting it on paper, it’s going to stay there.

00;28;05;50 – 00;28;29;37
Unknown
So your tribal knowledge and your setup knowledge and all those things, you know, they get recorded in the system for future use. Yep. And, Matt, I know that, this is a topic near and dear to your heart as well. I saw you do that. You know, exceptionally well at, at 3D industries, and I’m sure still now at 3D graphite.

00;28;29;59 – 00;28;55;41
Unknown
any thoughts about this? Yeah. I mean, let’s see, first, I would say that if you’re if you’re out there and you’re trying to go paperless, that this was one of the biggest hurdles that I ran into just because of old habits. You know, anytime you want to implement an ERP or a new system or whatever, it’s just, you know, the people that we hire these days are not really replaceable, right?

00;28;55;41 – 00;29;18;59
Unknown
And a lot of times guys have old habits. So when you have, replaceable people with big egos, it’s really hard to get them to do something new. So I, I dog train also on the side. And, my dog trainer taught me about habits. And there’s a really good book out there called Atomic Habits in when we were pushing all of our people to really it’s not just paperless.

00;29;19;00 – 00;29;35;24
Unknown
It’s like actually the way that we sold it was like, if we’re going to, we had to go all in on pro shop because, you know, I have a lot of friends that use pro shop at different levels. And my whole thing is like, you know, if, if you if you go all in, pro shop, like all in the way we design and why Kelsey.

00;29;36;07 – 00;30;02;11
Unknown
and everybody designed it the way they did. It makes way more sense than if you just do 20% or 30% or 40%. and now we’re even trying to push it even further. we’re actually using APIs to ramp all of our data from, HubSpot sales force. So it’s marketing software or CRM, QuickBooks traction because that, you know, I love, Traction by Gino Wickman.

00;30;02;11 – 00;30;29;44
Unknown
So they have a software, where you can, you know, have meetings and, and we’re, we’re tying it all into, like one dashboard. So we’re basically in the pro shop, and, Matt, Rudy’s been working at, for us for a while, so, that’s like next level paperless. That’s that’s all the same context. So, yeah, it’s like, I guess it’s like, really, you got to try to, get your guys to buy in by forcing them to have good habits with that.

00;30;29;54 – 00;30;50;51
Unknown
Yeah. That suggestion, it’s hard to do. It is. And I know, I remember the story, early on of, when you. I can’t remember if was it around time tracking or putting in data, but, you had a back at 3D industries, you had a machinist or someone that said, no, I’m not doing that. Oh, the guy that fired you.

00;30;50;51 – 00;31;13;29
Unknown
Yeah. Let him go the very next day. Right. Well, that was the thing, right? Yeah. I mean, we’d have these meetings and and I let these guys know that we were serious, you know, because, you know, doing that real complex, ultra precision, multi process machining, again, you’ve got massive egos inside that building. And you know, and I wanted to show them that I was I was I was serious.

00;31;13;29 – 00;31;34;27
Unknown
So I said hey the next person to push back is getting fired. And I went to my first employee, Bob, who’s still with me, thank God. Like, please don’t let it be because I’m to fire the next person that gives me any grief and I don’t care who it is anyhow. But anyway, it wasn’t 20 minutes later where we got a winner and I walked him right out the door.

00;31;34;32 – 00;32;07;25
Unknown
And since that particular, instance, we really haven’t had any pushback since all the people, they get it right. It’s a but you just you just have to put your foot down. It just did. Running a paper system so easy once you start right brain. I mean it’s literally like night and day. Like I can’t even imagine how I this back in the past with all these setup sheets and the paper in my shop, it was so much stacked with paper because aerospace machining, I mean, if you wanted to go to school that you’d have to go to school for paperwork.

00;32;07;30 – 00;32;25;45
Unknown
It’s all paperwork. Why would you want that scattered everywhere anyway? I could tell you, Larry, stories about aerospace companies I go through. Everything’s in files. Well, since anybody watching, it’s still on files. I get how hard it is to switch over, but oh my God like paper files I just, I don’t know how anybody can do it.

00;32;25;45 – 00;32;43;50
Unknown
I mean yeah kudos to you. If you could run your shop without being paperless I know that’s the ironic part. It seems so hard to get rid of. And once you’ve done it, you can’t imagine how you did it the old way. Oh, and even our training like or we put all of our we started putting our training in video and pictures and things like that recently.

00;32;44;18 – 00;33;07;33
Unknown
necessarily not paperless, I guess it is kind of, but like it’s that same context, like everything goes in a pro shop just like, except for everything. Everything goes in. That’s it. So I failed to mention we’re we’re launching some polls, after each section, I guess hopefully you’ve been getting those. So, Yeah, thanks for, participating in those, filling those in.

00;33;07;38 – 00;33;32;06
Unknown
And we’ll keep moving here to stay on track. a couple more resources again for hopefully to inspire you. did a case study a couple years ago with Beacon Industries, a really cool shop down in, down in Texas. They make this portion, the sort of the the rotating plate and uprights of these things that launch missiles, on big ships.

00;33;32;11 – 00;33;55;39
Unknown
And they used to be a paper based, company. and as you can see here on the screen, just massive, cost reductions, time reductions. when they told me they saved 25 grand, just in paper and toner per year, which was a good way towards their entire pro shop subscription. I was like, Holy cow, that that that is wonderful.

00;33;55;49 – 00;34;22;38
Unknown
Saving some trees. all right, let’s get into topic number four. this is where, Matt and Brian are really going to take center stage, or both of them are really into traction in EOS and have seen massive impacts, on how they run their businesses. and, yeah, I’d love to have you guys sort of kick us off here.

00;34;22;43 – 00;34;28;11
Unknown
I mean, I can’t even talk that the gif is just killing me.

00;34;28;15 – 00;35;07;19
Unknown
The greatest unintentional comedy of all time was that movie that that girl, second on the right did. I don’t remember that. But not remember that. Anyway, sorry. Tangent. Speaking of traction, go ahead, Brian, you do you have any. yeah. Well, we’ve adopted EOS as well. And, we did this a couple of years before adopting Photoshop, and I guess I would just have to say, you know, from a culture standpoint, I’m a fan of EOS, but it also, works extremely well with this 9100 and with, pro shop.

00;35;07;19 – 00;35;38;54
Unknown
And I think just the whole concept of building a team, managing team, keeping a clean and exciting culture. Yeah. So much for the business. we had a fraction EOS coach. And one of the things he said to us early on is that culture is what you’re willing to put up with. And we found we were putting up with just too much, you know, bad stuff from employees.

00;35;38;54 – 00;35;59;37
Unknown
And so I think taking control of that and deciding to intentionally create a positive culture, along with the systems that you have in place, is just a very powerful, business idea and one that just helped you produce better profits and better success.

00;35;59;42 – 00;36;22;31
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, I could talk for days on this subject, but, I think what would be the most important thing? I think like to understand the context of traction. It’s the, the end result, which is the, the whole beauty of traction is to have a really good meeting. And most people don’t even know how to have meetings. Right.

00;36;22;31 – 00;36;49;35
Unknown
So like to solve root problems versus solving symptoms. And that takes a lot of practice. But you have to have a good team to be able to do that. So that starts with the org chart. So I can remember when we implemented track we I always suggest implementing traction first before you start a new ERP or pro shop, get all your ducks in a row first before you, you know, put in this like massively disruptive, but awesome system.

00;36;49;54 – 00;37;13;32
Unknown
it is going to disrupt everything. you got to have the right people in place. So, let’s see. So I can remember looking at your org chart that you guys designed. Like that. I couldn’t believe it when I first saw it I was like okay now. So I had a, I had to envision a future org chart which is where I wanted my company to go first.

00;37;13;37 – 00;37;31;18
Unknown
And then I did the org chart that I had, and I had everybody put in their names, and my company was like, I mean, it was a disaster. I mean, everything, it was like everybody was like a Hap model. Every day they’re putting on a different hat or every minute. Right. And so, it took about two years to get that fixed, believe it or not.

00;37;31;20 – 00;37;53;47
Unknown
You know, I always tell this one story, like one of my best friends was, working for me as a project manager. And, speaking of teams, so, he was a manager, you know, most managers and in the, in the CNC world love everything about being a manager, the money, the badge, telling people what to do, but they do not like the management part of management.

00;37;54;26 – 00;38;23;03
Unknown
and so when I figured that out, it changed my company forever and that it took me a long time to get there. And I invite everybody to retraction and really dive into pro shop org chart. to link to Brian’s point, go higher on a, a business coach. I do I do that for people. it’s, it’ll it’ll it’ll change everything about your business and it’ll really help with the implementation of pro shop.

00;38;23;08 – 00;39;07;22
Unknown
And I don’t know how anybody could do it without having that fundamental communication structure up front, that that top level context of root problem solving. I wouldn’t want to even try to implement an ERP or run a shop without that. Yeah. I think, there’s a lot of overlap between, you know, having good meetings, having, you know, like you said, root cause, and organizing change management, which is what’s required as you switch any big system, whether it’s a CRM or an ERP or implementing lean or whatever, and, having, you know, super clear goals and responsibilities and timelines and supporting people through that change.

00;39;07;22 – 00;39;34;46
Unknown
Because change is hard and people are afraid of it. and resist it oftentimes. yeah. Just so important. and then just get to a couple of these bullet points, you know, again, coming back to the, the podcast, it’s amazing how common, you know, these bigger, more successful shops are where they have clear mission, vision and values documented, published.

00;39;34;51 – 00;39;58;31
Unknown
They live and breathe by them. They hire by them, they fire by them, they make decisions about customers, by them. And, it really is, I think, a foundational piece for, for, having a great culture, having trust with your team, with your customers. And, so if you don’t have those, I’d say, put that on the short list of things you’d probably want to work on next.

00;39;58;35 – 00;40;21;44
Unknown
All right, all right, continuing on, just make sure we stay on track. shared a little bit. I shared a and others are going to share in the chat again. Thank you. Abra. I shared a talk at a local aerospace conference here in Seattle in February where I talked about how to recruit better, how to onboard better, and how to get more out of your team.

00;40;23;12 – 00;40;44;52
Unknown
just in general. it wasn’t really a pro shop pitch at all, but, I think it’s so foundational and so important that every shop needs to hear this. Some of the principles of the hiring, and recruiting came from the book, by Oh, gosh, it shouldn’t escape my mind right at this very second.

00;40;46;32 – 00;40;50;36
Unknown
it’ll come to me,

00;40;50;41 – 00;41;12;25
Unknown
It was a great book. Chris Zelnick, hiring, winning the war for talent. Winning the war for talent by Chris Saanich. Fantastic book. Really. You know, thinking outside the box for how to get get noticed. in this very competitive industry, with, with, you know, with recruiting. So I encourage you to go check that out.

00;41;13;12 – 00;41;36;56
Unknown
and then, yeah, we’re going to talk about sort of getting more throughput and a lot of what we’ve talked about so far. I think leads up to this topic, getting higher throughput on the shop floor, having higher productivity. Right. You can’t do that. Well, it’s harder to do that with things on paper without a good team, without, you know, enough work, positive sales pressure.

00;41;36;56 – 00;42;02;50
Unknown
Kelsey and I like to call it. Yeah. That’s that. You have plenty of work to choose from. You’re not trying to, you know, just scramble to to, you know, keep your machines full. hard to be profitable when you’re when you’re in that, in that mode. yeah. I’d love to, open up to any of the three of you to to, to share, any thoughts on this one?

00;42;02;55 – 00;42;24;50
Unknown
Well, I’d like to just harken a little bit back to the niche component about optimizing shop floor. if you’re back in the niche, something that you understand and do really well, this optimization comes, a little bit for free in the sense that you get to do the same kinds of things, albeit all different components, but you have the same processes, or you have the same, you know, configurations.

00;42;25;02 – 00;42;52;55
Unknown
And that optimization through repetition, starts to become more natural. And then for those, things that are nuanced and different between each of the components, that’s where the documentation and the having it all available at your fingertips at any time and sharing those, learnings so that you can update other processes that share the same, the same problems, that kind of brings it all together a little bit, around those tools.

00;42;53;00 – 00;43;22;46
Unknown
I love that you said that. Yeah. When you’re switching from, you know, a vacuum fixture to, some big, massive jig that you need for this massive part or whatever, you know, it’s changing out the entire carousel of tools because none of them are similar, because you’re doing so many different types of things. That’s really hard. and we learned those lessons time and again at Pro CNC, eventually coming up with what we called our triple threat for things that we didn’t want to do.

00;43;22;48 – 00;43;48;23
Unknown
If a, if a job had hard materials, tight tolerances and cosmetics all in the same part, that wasn’t for us. We were going to niche down and be good at some of, you know, some of those different things exclusively. But, but yeah. Matter or Brian, any any thoughts about how, yeah. Whether pro shops kind of helped you with throughput and, and productivity or just general concepts.

00;43;48;24 – 00;44;12;06
Unknown
And overall, I, I would say that, yeah, Pro Shops started, how do I put this? Like, I can remember before Pro Shop where I didn’t have good data to create measurables to optimize it. It was always a guesswork, like, we’re getting killed on this job. What does that mean by losing $500 a day, 1000 bucks a day?

00;44;12;06 – 00;44;38;47
Unknown
I don’t understand that. Everything was kind of opinion, but then when we started tracking everything we could, we put in measurables. now it’s fantastic. I don’t know how you would ever, you know, because when you could see, you know, what a new fixture can bring you with setup time or, a new idea with scheduling. or, I can tell you one thing that we do now, we started doing this about three months ago.

00;44;38;47 – 00;45;12;27
Unknown
We started scheduling continual improvement as internal jobs. That’s something that I’ve never done before, if, you know, and that comes from traction with rocks, right? The rock idea. Right. so, man, has that been great. I mean, there was there’s one repeat, job that I do, and we logged, for hours on testing new cutting tool, and it’s going to save me $37,000 a year.

00;45;12;32 – 00;45;36;06
Unknown
Now, think about that for a second, right? Like, where can you make that much money and a job? You’re never going to make that kind of money on a job, ever, right? I mean, that’s insane. So the continual improvement like it just the light bulb went off in my head. I’m like, what am I doing? I look back and I want to kick myself in the butt for not thinking about this before, but like, it really shine the light in my brain.

00;45;36;11 – 00;45;59;01
Unknown
And, and I was like, wow. Like I can’t profit at that rate on on anything else besides continual improvement. Something like that, something I’m already running that I can improve. Like the hours that I invest versus the return. So and again, you have to force your guys to do that because everybody is again, they have these habits.

00;45;59;04 – 00;46;19;19
Unknown
Like my first employee Bob, who’s just an absolute machine and the best buyback program on the planet, he is focused on just getting work out. That is it. He’s got blinders on. Right. So when I talked to him about using a new cutting tool, it’s like he wants to kill me. Like stabbed me in the eye with a with the cutting tool when I because he just wants to get work on.

00;46;19;19 – 00;46;41;15
Unknown
He’s got no time. But that once we started forcing him to take a step back and and start looking at content. But then once they saw the profits that we have from that, we have been doing it for that long, he now he’s changed his habits. Now every meeting that we have every week, he’s got, you know, ten ideas on how we can improve the shop because he can actually see.

00;46;41;20 – 00;47;03;24
Unknown
So I would suggest scheduling it in as like an internal job. That’s great. Yeah. We used to Kelsey used to push us to do Kaizen work orders all the time. I could process and see documenting a process of improvement and schedule it on the books, and you’re going to do it right. And I like that expectation component that you have there about like set the expectation in the company.

00;47;03;24 – 00;47;27;32
Unknown
We expect people to log 3%, 5%, whatever you pick on improvement. Like I want to see it in the numbers. If I see 1% next month on improvement, that’s the problem, right? Yeah, yeah. And those on pro shop that are on the call today will know that. And the user page for every single user. And you can set your targets for how long, how much they’re spending their time on jobs.

00;47;27;37 – 00;47;46;48
Unknown
And that sort of kaizen improvement activity category is right there as well. Right, right. and as well as well as training and yeah, such an important thing to focus on, right? Yeah. I mean, that’s on that’s before we move along and I say one, one more real quick thing before I forget or just flashing in my head, I’m looking at my notes.

00;47;47;22 – 00;48;12;19
Unknown
just real quick. Okay. So one of the reasons why I love Pro Shop is because if you follow the pro shop context, it puts more responsibility on the shop lead out in the shop. Right. So before we had pro shop, all the decisions were made by the engineering department or me. Right. And I’m the sales and marketing guy, CEO, president, knucklehead.

00;48;13;47 – 00;48;35;13
Unknown
and then we’d send it out to the shop floor and they’d have to deal with it. But now. But now that we follow pro shop and you have a shop lead, we give them so much responsibility. It I mean, an accountability. It just changed the whole communication structure and productivity in our shop. And it’s just a different type of culture.

00;48;35;50 – 00;48;54;23
Unknown
the structure is amazing. So I, I always sell that to people when I’m out talking with other shops about how they should think about, you know, running that even if they don’t run pro shop, just that context of giving them more responsibility and accountability out in the shop versus sending the information down from up top. Yeah, that goes right back to the building.

00;48;54;23 – 00;49;25;58
Unknown
Your team and culture, section right. I guess the only thing I’d add here, Paul, is that, another part of optimization is planning and organization. And, you know, it’s one thing to optimize the run time on a part, but if you are not ready with your tools, fixtures, material, program, everything is not ready to go. When you’re, ready to move that job on to a machine, you’re going to end up wasting a huge amount of time.

00;49;26;03 – 00;49;54;19
Unknown
And so, you know, having again, everything in a system where you know, where that fixture is, where you keep your tool libraries, where you have your programs organized so that when it comes to set up, you’re, you know, literally ready to go, you’re not out looking for the fixture that’s lost in the shop somewhere. yeah. That makes a huge difference in, you know, just optimizing the overall shop performance.

00;49;54;24 – 00;50;17;23
Unknown
Yeah. And that’s the pre-processing checklist that Kelsey designed so many years ago. That is that so much money? Kelsey. Well, Paul did an amazing, amazing little blurb on the on the checklist. The power of the checklist. Yeah. Not lost. Yeah. Oh, great. in the chat. So, so many, Yeah. So many resources. All right, we got it.

00;50;17;23 – 00;50;40;23
Unknown
We’re a little behind schedule. Going to move along here. Just a couple of resources for you. fantasy stick, case study and video that we did with, one on another client’s coastal machine. Cody here. they went from around 50 to 60% on time to over 95% plus for an entire year. Just by focusing on some of these things we’ve been talking about, it really can make a huge impact.

00;50;41;07 – 00;51;00;18
Unknown
and then JJ, our engineering, Kevin and Brian over there, massive reductions in setup times by focusing on what you just said, Brian, making sure everything is prepped and ready before you start the job. The last time, the last time you should be looking at what’s coming up next is when you’ve done breaking down the last job.

00;51;00;18 – 00;51;18;37
Unknown
You’re like, okay, what job is next? Right? That is just a recipe for spindle downtime. Lots of waste, lots of, problems. So, you can check out some of those. and now let’s get into the last section. Kelsey, I know you’re going to take a big part of this. and we should probably wrap it.

00;51;18;37 – 00;51;49;33
Unknown
Probably try to do it in five minutes. yeah. Sounds good. I’ll make this one. Is this the simple way? Right. We can do it in five minutes if we’re gonna do it the simple way. I mean, you know, there’s a lot to think about. in, in, you know, finances, and certainly, there are a huge number of benefits to having a good CPA and people who can, you know, optimize your taxes and people who, understand how, you know, accounting softwares work in order to give you, you know, some of the best, cleanest software based books.

00;51;50;07 – 00;52;15;05
Unknown
but that there’s also another huge component of understanding and really being able to dig in on what works and what doesn’t from a financial perspective. And I would say traditional accounting softwares are not particularly good at this. you have to give them a lot of information, but also a lot of times just even the structure of, you know, the sort of double sided ledger accounting software makes it harder to sometimes tease out where the issues really are.

00;52;15;36 – 00;52;33;31
Unknown
and certainly doesn’t give you the insight into, like, you know, the specific details of why a particular part number might have gone over in this instance, but been good in this scenario as well. So, you know, being able to watch these kinds of things like overage alerts and, even being able to watch the profitability of jobs in real time.

00;52;33;31 – 00;52;57;26
Unknown
So you’re like, oh, we’re 30% of the way through the job. How’s the profitability so far? is is really impactful. and part of the way to probably think about that is that there are a huge number of, complicated components to accounting in general, but there’s also some simple buckets. and in this particular case, you know, like in pro shop, we do for, you know, basic buckets.

00;52;57;37 – 00;53;22;11
Unknown
And it makes things, a lot more understandable in terms of where do we need to go digging for a little more information if one of these is out of alignment. Right. and then the other thing about this is with this set of, cost criteria, one of the biggest things that pro shop will deliver, and I think you need to think about, even if you’re not using pro shop, is how to account for some of that indirect overhead to get to true net profit.

00;53;22;57 – 00;53;40;44
Unknown
by job. because it sounds like, you know, oh, indirect overhead that just goes across all jobs. I’m not exactly sure how to spread that. but it matters. and especially if you include direct overhead, those two components of overhead, really make a big difference. It’s a huge difference to be, assembling something on a bench.

00;53;41;12 – 00;54;08;47
Unknown
and to be having your, you know, multi pallet, five axis horizontal machining center, that cost you a million bucks, working on it. Right. Those are significant cost differences. And you need to know how that activity based costing is really affecting you. So definitely thinking about, finances from a somewhat simplistic view, but then, you know, being able to dive in and say, exactly where are my misalignments?

00;54;09;21 – 00;54;29;42
Unknown
and being able to combine those things as well. across jobs. So, like, you know, you make a fixture and it’s good for the right hand in the left hand part. How do you associate the costs from fixture to the finished parts? is that something people often just throw an overhead? It’s like, well, that doesn’t make as much sense, but what is the right way to connect those things?

00;54;29;47 – 00;54;52;16
Unknown
And so using systems that can connect some of those costs together and give you, more insight into where the real costs came from, of course, it’s about data and getting good data, but, that’s something we’re actually pretty good at. So. Awesome. Yeah, well, I know, Brian, you had some thoughts as well. We’re going to open up.

00;54;52;45 – 00;55;16;42
Unknown
we are tight on time here. We’re going to open up the Q&A. And while we do that, I’m also going to share, the contact information for, these fellows. thanks so much, both of you, for putting your personal email addresses out for the world to see. And because I appreciate how much you’re sharing, the success of your own businesses and, giving back to the community.

00;55;16;42 – 00;55;44;49
Unknown
So, there we have a few questions here. a couple of really good ones, that are coming in here. I’m going to start with the one from Mark Miller. paperless sounds great, but how many different part numbers do you have? I’m, I’ll say conceptually, probably the more numbers you have, the more important paperless is, but, Brian, I’m sure both of you.

00;55;44;54 – 00;56;09;11
Unknown
It must be in the many thousands of numbers you process each year. Yeah, it’s many thousands. And I just don’t know how we could do it without, a paperless system. Yeah, I know some of our clients have upwards of, I don’t know, 15, 20,000 part numbers that they, process, you know, somewhat frequently, annually or more.

00;56;09;11 – 00;56;34;33
Unknown
More often than not, even, yeah, it’s just like it’s compounds on itself, right? Imagine the filing cabinets required for 10,000 part numbers, and the chance of mis filing something or losing something. It’s just it’s it’s crazy. It’s a crazy concept. and then Robbie here had a great question. Will being a niche shop not put you at risk versus being a shop that can flatten out the ebbs and flows with different types of work?

00;56;34;37 – 00;57;16;10
Unknown
I’d love to open that for Brian, you or Matt. It’s a trap. It’s a trap. It’s a trap. No, I mean the last point. You always have to have an open mind, but, you know, I had a guy the other day asked me to run, you know, short run production on some aluminum parts. And, I thought about it, but, you know, I ended up just calling one of my friends and gave him the contact information and just, but I don’t know, I just had really bad, bad taste in my mouth from trying to do too many different types of materials with too many different industries.

00;57;16;10 – 00;57;38;45
Unknown
It just, it just as a business, but you got to get to as close as McDonald’s business model as possible. That’s just. But there’s always exceptions to the rule. I mean, you know. So yeah, Brian, nothing. Yeah. My thought is you need to have a niche, but you can get your diversity from a wider customer base that has similar requirements.

00;57;40;03 – 00;57;59;25
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. That’s exactly what I was going to say Brian, is that I think that being in an industry that’s somewhat niche, is one thing like if it’s just industry, but it might be a process or a style like, you know, you’re, you’re into this kind of machining that does this thing that might not just be for one industry or one customer.

00;57;59;36 – 00;58;25;28
Unknown
Right. But it’s this particular style and process and combination of things you do well, right? Yeah. I try to be prototype and production is very hard. You almost have to start a separate company to do the prototyping. Yeah. We had separate divisions, totally different value streams, different people, different machines. And that that worked really well for us. But yeah, trying to mix them together is so challenging.

00;58;25;41 – 00;59;04;02
Unknown
Yeah. I know Brian, you guys do tons of prototypes. and that leads into production. But, but they’re still probably similar types of geometries and materials and families and things like that. Right? Yeah. We’ve managed to make some pretty well. But I agree it’s very challenging. And the last thing I would say on this is the stronger your sales and marketing game is, the more you don’t have to worry about trying to spread across many industries because you can, you know, when you have that positive sales pressure always coming in, you can afford to be really niche.

00;59;04;06 – 00;59;26;18
Unknown
And it is important to have a wide variety of of of clients, you know, you don’t want you know, we say niche down. We don’t mean 80% of your business with one company and one type apart. you really want some, some diversity there as well. and then okay, a couple more questions. We have a couple one more minute or here.

00;59;26;22 – 00;59;48;19
Unknown
Once you establish your niche, you make the tech to apply to other markets, correct? Yeah. I think that’s a reasonable thing to say. Yeah. we will take these questions and try to get with those directly because we can’t get to all of them right now. so I think with that, we need to sort of wrap it up because we are at the top of the hour here.

00;59;48;24 – 01;00;11;13
Unknown
But, Brian, Matt, thank you so much for being here. And again, sharing your wisdom with with the audience. thank you to everyone that came today. Thank you, Kelsey, for your wisdom and, designing great features a long, long time ago that everyone is benefiting from. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, and thank you to Modern Machine Shop for hosting us.

01;00;11;18 – 01;00;30;44
Unknown
Yeah thanks everybody. That’s been it’s been a really good one. Yeah. Thank you all. Yes. Thanks everyone. As a reminder, today’s presentation has been recorded and will be available for on demand viewing shortly after we conclude today. with that, thank you for taking the time out of your week to listen and have a great rest of your week.

01;00;30;49 – 01;00;31;46
Unknown
Cheers, everybody.